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tv   The Ed Show  MSNBC  February 21, 2012 8:00pm-9:00pm PST

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the case, it's unclear that -- they'll have to decide this question. it will be interesting to see how they decide it. it will be interesting to see if she has standing because of receiving some kind of harm from the texas welcome to the "the ed show" from new york, reverend franklin graham questions president obama's christianie after rick santorum compares him to hitler. the radical attack on women in virginia is delayed, mitt romney steps in it like never before. buckle up folks, it's "the ed show," let's get to work. do you believe that president obama is a christian? >> i think you have to ask president obama. i cannot answer that question for anybody. >> reverend franklin graham joins the conspiracy theorists. >> muslim world sees barack obama as a muslim.
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>> barry lynn and e.j. dionne have full analysis and the white house is responding. today, women in virginia won a small victory to keep the government out of their bodies. but the fight continues. >> it's an invasive procedure and government entering into a woman's body. >> we talk to the democratic lawmaker on the front lines against a radical governor. now's terry o'neill. lizs winstead and krystal ball on the republican war on women's health. a week away from votes in michigan and arizona, the campaign vitriol is heating up. >> barack obama is the most dangerous president in modern history. >> jonathan alter and richard wolffe will break it down. good to have you watching us tonight, folks, thank you for joining us here on "the ed show.." you can make the case the religious right has taken
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control of the republican party. franklin graham became part of the smear machine to bring down the president and inject more questions in his past about christianity. he was on msnbc this morning speaking about the president's faith. >> do you believe that president obama is a christian? >> i think you have to ask president obama. you can ask me do i believe you're a christian. i think the best thing for a person is to ask you directly so i think people have to ask barack obama, he has saying he's a christian. so i think the question is what is a christian? a christian is a person that believes jesus christ is god's son who died on the cross who god raised to life if we put our faith and trust in him that god will forgive us of our sins. that is the definition of a christian. >> by graham's definition sounds like president obama is a christian, but graham isn't willing to accept it. >> i asked him when he was running, when he was a senator i asked him how he came to faith
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in christ. he said that he was working on the south side of chicago, in the community, and they asked him, the community asked him what church he went to, he said i don't go to church. they said if you work in our community you have to join one of our churches, then he joined the reverend jeremiah's church. >> by your definition he's not a christian? >> you have to ask him. >> this is becoming a pattern, is it not? last weekend rick santorum implying the president's christianity isn't legitimate. >> do you believe he's less of a christian -- >> i'm not suggesting that. obviously as we all know in the christian church there are a lot of of different stripes of christianity, so you can say he's -- i'm just say he's imposing his values on the church. >> well, if you want to know why conservatives are questioning the president's faith, all you have to do is look at the dow jones. which hit 13,000 today.
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the economy is not the president's weakest spot now. white house press secretary jay carney said president obama will keep focusing on economic matters, like the payroll tax cut. >> he firmly believes that getting an extra $40 in every paycheck is of vastly greater significance to most americans than someone's opinion, expressed on cable television about his personal faith, which again he has spoken about explicitly as recently as a few weeks ago at the national prayer service. >> when the president spoke at the breakfast he talked about praying with franklin graham's father, the reverend billy graham. >> the fact i would ever be on top of a mountain, saying a prayer for billy graham, a man
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whose faith has changed the world and sustained him through try umps and tragedies and movements and milestones, that simple fact humbled me to my core. >> reverend graham, i have to ask you tonight, doesn't that give us a snapshot of president obama's heart? examining someone's heart, mind, conscience, isn't that part of it all? i guess that's not enough for franklin graham. the president still hasn't proven himself. but graham is totally convinced that rick santorum is a christian. >> do you believe that rick santorum is christian? >> oh, i think so. >> how do you know if the standard is only the person knows what is within them, when you apply to the president is why it different for rick santorum? >> because his values are so clear on moral issues. no question about it. >> your reaction to the difference to the question about rick santorum and president
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obama i think exposes incredible double standard, they are the same situation. >> no, i asked president obama how he came to faith in christ. and he said i don't go to church. >> have you had that conversation with rick santorum? >> i talked to rick santorum, yes. >> he was more persuasive on the depth of his sincerity on the question? >> i think so but you have to look at what a person does with his life. anyone can say he's a christian. >> graham spends a lot of time deciding who is a real christian and who is not. here's what he thinks about mitt romney and newt gingrich. >> most christians would not recognize mormonism, they believe jesus christ but they have other things they believe in too we don't accept. i think newt is a christian. and at least he told me he is. >> newt gingrich told franklin graham he's a christian and graham believes it. but whether president obama says it, well, for graham that is not enough he's not sure. franklin graham and rick santorum are talking to a very specific audience, but millions of people.
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the arena of fairness i think right now. they're not being fair to the president. they are giving license to ordinary people to reject president obama because his personal faith doesn't seem to measure up to a pastor, a preacher, a reverend. it doesn't matter. if it's true or not, millions of people listening to graham and his father, all they need to do is cast the doubt and the people will believe them. get your cell phones out i want to know what you think. tonight's question, will republicans ever stop questioning president obama's faith? text a for yes, b for no to 622639. you can go to our blog at ed.msnbc.com, we'll bring you results later in the show. i'm joined tonight by reverend barry lynn, executive director of americans united. and a minister with the united church of christ. we should point out that we invited franklin graham to come on the program and he declined. reverend lynn, great to have you with us tonight. >> thank you.
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>> is the right wing imposing a religious test on president obama and other republican candidates, what do you make of the conversation? >> no, they absolutely are, ed, they're trying to make it clear they only respect one kind of christianity, the one that is reflected in i guess the conduct and positions of someone like rick santorum. they are bound and determined never to give president obama credit for anything when he goes to that somewhat controversial, very controversial prayer breakfast, he talks about his faith and right away they start to criticize him. they say well he quoted from the bible but misinterpreted the words of jesus. this guy cannot do anything right by their standards. when in fact he does reach out to the so-called religious right or catholic bishops, we see what they do. do them something that makes a few of us uncomfortable, on the other side and they don't say thank you, they just say you're still wrong. so now we've got the catholic
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bishops on the health and human services contraception regulations saying we want a guarantee if you are a catholic employer, their example, not mine from the general counsel, if i own a taco bell and don't believe in contraception, and he didn't, he said i don't want to cover those women employees. they want everything, they never give up. >> i want to focus back on the president's faith here, because it seems to me that reverend graham isn't hearing the language they want to hear. such as jesus christ is my lord and savior. apparently the resident hasn't said that to the satisfaction of reverend graham. the president did say this. >> i thought about my own spiritual journey, growing up in a household that wasn't particularly religious. going through my own period of doubt and confusion. finding christ when i wasn't
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even looking for him. so many years ago. possessing so many shortcomings that have been overcome by the simple grace of god. >> finding christ, that doesn't fit the code apparently. >> no. >> what do you make of it? >> it doesn't fit their code. christianity has a broad sweep of people who believe an essential message about god and the role of jesus, they don't care about that until barack obama said i change mid mind on the question of reproductive choice or i've given up on trying to separate church and state, i think we should merge the two, you're going to find the smear campaign, franklin graham's one thing, rick santorum is another. here is rick santorum saying it's a phony theology being promoted by president obama. a phony theology. we're not hiring a theologian in chief. we're hiring a command near chief.
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this kind of attitude, language, no place on the campaign trail, not in america. >> here is more from franklin graham today. >> islamic law, islam sees him as a son of islam. because his father was a muslim, his grandfather was a muslim, so under islamic law, muslim world sees barack obama as muslim, as a son of islam. that is the way it works. >> you don't believe he's a muslim in. >> no. >> categorically not a muslim. >> i can't say categorically because islam has gotten a free pass under obama. >> wow. i find that absolutely amazing. what does barack obama have to say or do to prove to the christian right wing in this country that he is a man of faith and he has had journey to christ and now he's throwing out that dog whistle called, maybe he is a muslim, what do you think of that? >> and he says we can't cat he goricly be sure he's a christian, he could be a muslim
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because muslims like him, this is the worst kind of logic. franklin graham has been on the fringes of american religious life, he may not think so, most regular people do. but now he has gone off the deep end. again, i think you're right to point out this is part of a campaign, a smear campaign in which a lot of people -- >> what else could it be? >> nothing. >> what else could it be? >> that is not a rational dialogue about theology. it's rick santorum and rick perry is out of the race now, at least for four yes, he wants to impose his religious views on everybody. >> thank you, reverend. >> the president doesn't want to do that. >> reverend barry lynn, thank you for joining us. turn to e.j. dionne, senior fellow at brookings institute. are religious conservatives taking over the republican party and throwing out test after test to see if people measure up? >> it sure looks that way. i have to say, ed, i have the
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sneaking suspicion as far as michigan is concerned, that rick santorum may have gone too far, and if he loses this next week, which now i think is a real possibility, i think it is going to be conservative women who are not that conservative, as conservative as rick santorum is but want to go back to the franklin graham thing, the fact that we are even talking about what religion president obama is should disturb us as americans. i was thinking about recent history, dwight eisenhower didn't belong to a church until he decided to run for president. then a republican advisor said you better join a church, he decided to become a presbyterian. we didn't care what religion dwight eisenhower was when he was commanding forces in europe or president. in 1960, we decided as a country when we elected john kennedy you didn't have to be protestant to be president. to even enter into this conversation i think is bothersome. it's fine with me, i think
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religious people have a right to bring their own faith to the public square if they want to, but to start questioning someone's religion and saying, questioning someone's religion as if that is a barrier is a real problem. >> it seemed to me in that interview this morning that reverend graham said based on his analysis, he does not think people should support president obama. that is how i read it. there was a real political message there, he could not give conviction in saying he believes that the president is a christian, which is code talk to the religious conservatives in the country but also throws in the muslim talk. i mean, what should the president do? should he give us another speech on race and faith in the country
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are we at that point or should he ignore it? >> i think mostly he should ignore it i think he should -- i like it when he talks about his faith because he's very effective when he does it. i don't know what the reverend graham was trying to say, but what he said explicitly was trouble enough. when he said islam has gotten a free pass under president obama, tell that to al qaeda or the taliban, when he seems more concerned about the muslims of the world than christians being slaughtered, i agree with him, we should worry about the persecution, to say that about president obama that is not sending a signal or dog whistle. that is a really serious charge and it's not true. >> thank you for joining us tonight. >> great to be with you, ed. answer the question, share your thoughts on twitter. controversial ultrasound bill is once again delayed in the state of virginia. democratic lawmaker charniele herring calls it state-sponsored
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rape. the politics is ugly and may be a wake up call for women voters every where. jonathan alter, richard wolffe join me for the discussion. stay with us, lots more coming up.
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>> coming up the virginia house of delegates delays a vote on radical women's health bill. i'll talk to one of the lawmakers on the front line of the fight against the radical law. last week we told you about republicans refusing to allow a woman to testify on contraception on capitol hill. this week democrats are holding their own hearing but republicans won't allow it to be televised. much more on the war on women's health coming up. mitt romney said something today that has conservatives groaning, share your thoughts on twitter, using #edshow. we're right back. this is an under-handed slip [ tom ] we invented the turbine business right here in schenectady.
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this is an under-handed slip and slide way to try to come up with a way to undermine roe vwade but crashing women's rights, crashing women's health, crashing the doctor-patient relationship. >> welcome back to "the ed show." politics 2012, the house of delegates in virginia has once again delayed a vote on a controversial ultrasound bill. the bill would require women seeking abortions to receive a highly invasive and medically unnecessary trans-vaginal ultrasound first. a vote was put off yesterday, following a protest outside the state capital. the measure would impose a 24 hour wait period between the ultrasound and the abortion. the ultrasound image would be offered to the woman although she would not be required to
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view it. but a print out of the image would be placed in the woman's medical record. critics of the bill say the requirement would also be costly for women because insurance companies are unlikely to cover a medically unnecessary procedure. let's turn to charniele herring, minority whip of the virginia house of delegates and chair of the state's reproductive rights caucus. charniele, thank you for joining us tonight. i understand you have referred to this as state sponsored rape. is that correct? if so, why? >> yes, that is absolutely correct. i call it state-sponsored rape because there is no medical reason to have a trans-vaginal probe. i think it's an overreach of the government, and violates women's privacy. >> why the delay? are the republicans in re treat over their own legislation?
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why didn't they take the vote today. the governor has said he will sign this. he of course is a social conservative. >> right, i think there is a delay because yesterday, ed, over 1000 virginians stood in silence on the grounds of the capital. i think the message is clear the legislation is extreme, even though the governor said he would sign it and he has not definitively backed away from that position. what you saw yesterday and today is a delay on the legislation because the republicans have a serious problem on their hands. >> majority of virginians are against this. why is the gop going against the will of the people? i understand the number that has been out there is 55% of virginians say no, 36% say yes. 36% isn't exactly overwhelming, what do you make of this, why are they going down this road? >> i they are they are clinging to the extreme right of their
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party, they don't want to back down and cram it down our throats. but they have to listen to virginians, 55% say this is wrong you can't violate a woman this way. ed, ironic they talk they are the party of small government here they are big government reaching into the doctors office and straight in a woman's body, unacceptable. >> it a government takeover, no question about that. forcing a medical procedure on a woman and ordering the medical community to do something that is deemed unnecessary in many cases. how is the medical community responding to this legislation? >> i can tell you they are concerned. they certainly are concerned. i actually tried to amendment the bill to give protection to doctors and my amendment was ruled non-germane. when the medical community is not being listened to, women are not being listened to, i would hesitate, too, if i were the republicans, they've gone too far.
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>> governor mcdonnell talked about in circles as a vice presidential candidate does this play in into it at all? >> there is a concern, virginians are speaking out and loudly. there has been a wake-up call, i'm glad women and men who respect the right to privacy and freedom are speaking out. i think it will affect the governor, will affect the republican that is running for the senate, george allen, because they both not -- >> where is george allen on this? >> i know that george allen has supports the personhood bill which actually affects contraception. it actually may impede women's ability to get contraception in virginia. >> do you think this issue is big enough where it could politically swing the state? it would have an impact that this issue could have an impact as to who gets elected and who doesn't? >> i think it can have an
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impact, certainly. again, virginians are watching, it's certainly been a swing state for years now, and it makes it even more so, but at the republicans continue with their policies of big government, and reaching into our private lives, they can see a turn in the tide. >> delegate charniele herring, thank you for joining us. first republicans won't let women testify at a birth control hearing last week. now democrats are holding their own hearing but republicans say no you can't tell advise it. terry o'neill, lizz winstead, krystal ball will weigh in on that. >> gas prices are going up, republicans are trying to take advantage of it at the polls. stay tuned, we're right back. when you have tough pain, do you want fast relief?
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the republicans war on women shows no signs of letting up. last week the gop denied women an opportunity to testify before congress on the subject of birth control. republicans heard testimony from an all-male panel instead. today democrats announced they will be holding a hearing of their own. with just one witness. a lady on this program, sandra fluke. she was on the program and gave the testimony to the republicans that they would not allow. the republicans in turn are not allowing the democratic hearing and fluke's testimony to be
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televised. politico reports aides for democratic leader nancy pelosi say the hearing recording studio has denied a request to broadcast the event, apparently at the behest of the republican controlled committee on house administration. evangelical leaders joined the catholic bishops in opposition to the president's administration's compromise on contraception. family research council president tony perkins says more than 2500 faith-based leaders have signed a letter to president obama asking him to reverse the birth control rule. and it doesn't stop there. now, a republican lawmaker in indiana wants to kill a resolution honoring the girl scouts. why? because he believes the girl scouts are a radicalized organization that encourages homosexual life styles, promotes feminist lesbians or communists and funds planned parenthood. his proof?
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in a letter, state representative bob morris claims "i did a small amount of web-based research and what i found is disturb" i'm joined by terry o'neill, president of the, democric strategist krystal ball and lizz win stead, co-creator of "the daily show." i guess this is what war on women looks like. that know what democracy looks like. lizs winstead how outraged by the news? >> i hope the girl scouts are radical feminists, i would be thrilled if the cookie money was going toward that. more than anything, when it moves from moral outrage we don't have women on the panel because they don't qualify to have a conscience, to rick santorum talking how, and roy blunt talking about legislation that morality can be -- they are
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moveable parts. and that is very frightening to me to think that somebody can say i can deny you health care coverage because this particular thing may lead to you doing something that i morally object to. >> the most restrictive law when it comes to roe v wa defrn. this is charniele herring. >> i called it state-sponsored rape, there is no medical reason to have a trans vaginal probe. i think an overreach of the government and violates women's privacy. >> your response, krystal? >> i think she has it right.
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in fact if you look at the laws on the books in virginia it does qualify as rape. so let's call it what it is. this is one piece of a broader republican agenda they have brought since they took over the senate. they have a tie on the virginia senate, the tie breaker is the republican lieutenant governor. we have seen one piece of extreme legislation after another. this week alone in terms of women's rights we have the probe bill that has been talked about. a personhood bill, very same as the one too extreme to pass by the voters in mississippi, and they are looking to totally eliminate funding for low income women seeking an abortion for fetus that has been deemed grossly, mentally or physically disabled. >> terry o'neill, i want to ask you, obviously, wisconsin was a wake-up call for workers in this country and wage earners. it is what is happening, this is where the republican party wants
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to go should all women be on alert this could be the new wave in america? >> i think this is a new wave in america. i think women around the country are waking up a sleeping giant is being aweak wake -- awakened. the personhood bill criminalizes the most popular birth control, criminalizes abortions in the case of rape or incest, criminalizes abortion to save the life of a woman whose pregnancy has gone wrong. it's men as well as women that are opposed this. we know that because the bill went down to a resounding defeat in none other than the state of mississippi. and that ultrasound bill, i think is a very good thing that we are getting national attention, actually virginia is the sixth or seventh or eighth state to pass an ultrasound bill. it state-sponsored rape. the fbi redefined rape to mean simply penetration without
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consent. that is exactly what this bill requires. it forces doctors to commit rape. it's outrageous. >> what about the hearing that will take place, the democratsare trying to get the story to the people, the republicans won't allow it to be televised. >> that is the message right there. i think the republicans not wanting to hear the voice of the majority of women, when 98% of women in this country have used contraception at some point in their lives, and they want to hold a hearing with one woman who talks about contraception, and they won't teleadvise it. do you need another message? >> we are the 99%.
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i want to underscore, governor mcdonnell had the senate holding back the flood gates of some of the crazy legislation, now he is the public face of these very extreme measures and it puts him in a very tough spot especially with his national ambitions. and remember, he had a problem with women in the past. he wrote as part of his master's thesis, anti-contraception, railing against radical feminists, fornicators, that is his introduction to a national audience it will be devastating. >> thanks for your time tonight on the issue we will follow it. i think newt is a christian. and at least he told me he is. >> up next, jonathan alter and richard wolffe react to the franklin graham comments and venom from the campaign trial. >> the president wants to weaken
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welcome back to "the ed show." with the help of rick santorum we have seen a loud resurgence of the religious right in the presidential election cycle. in 2012 the republicans are fighting over women's access to contraception, they are standing behind an unnecessary invasive procedure, in the state of virginia. republicans are doing a pretty good job of scaring women voters across the country, aren't they? that is not enough. once again they are raising questions about president obama's faith.
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let's turn to msnbc political analyst and bloomberg view columnist, jonathan alter and msnbc political analyst richard wolffe, gentlemen, thank you for joining us tonight. i want to play this from reverend franklin graham this morning and get your reaction, here it is. >> under islamic law, the muslim world sees barack obama as a muslim. as a son of islam. that is the way it works. that is the way they see him. but of course he said he didn't grow up that way, he didn't believe in that, he believed in jesus christ, i accept that. but i'm just saying the muslim world, muslim world, islam, they see him as a son of islam. >> richard wolffe what is he saying here? >> i think it's clear what he's saying. he made several errors in his assertions this morning. i don't quite understand why someone like him would follow the letter in the first place, that seemed weird but he claimed the president's great grandfather was muslim.
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it was his grandfather who converted to christianity and then to islam, so he was wrong in his facts but obviously what he's trying to suggest is this president is sympathetic to muslims, that he actual le endorses muslims killing christians, that is his assertion in the interview, this is shocking stuff. he's obviously saying the president's unamerican, not aligned with american culture and outrageous slur and wrong on the facts. >> jonathan, what do you make almost a coordinated political attack. we've seen rick santorum come out and question president obama's faith over the weekend and now this unusual interview with reverend graham, what do you make of it? >> i don't think it's cord coordinated. they are steeped in this nonsense and believe a lot of the stuff they see on the internet. it's sad. if you think about the career of
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the reverend billy graham, one of the great american lives of the 20th century, advisor to many presidents, spiritual advisor to them, and his son, not for the first time, descended in bigotry and stupidity. it's a sad thing franklin graham taken with any degree of seriousness in the debate but also good news politically for democrats. because what is happening here, ed, is that between santorum and franklin graham and the other things you're hearing, they are talking about a subject that is a total loser for them. if we're talking about contraception, republicans are losing independents, they are losing voters, a disaster for them if it keeps up much longer. >> talk about the ultrasound bill in virginia, this is the wake up call for women everywhere and should president obama seize on this opportunity politically, richard, what do you think? >> i think it reenergizes, especially younger women who
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maybe thought the fights about abortion rights that belonged to an older generation. this is a way for people to really engage with what is a real threat, you don't have to exaggerate what is going on here when you have senate candidates like scott brown in massachusetts signing up to the notion birth control should be dropped, allowed to be dropped by employers across the board, not on religious grounds, but because they want to do that, that is an area where democrats can say this is where we stand. these are our values, this is why you should be engaged with this election, no matter what you think about the other subjects, this touches your life. that what is politics should be about. engaging people on all sides. this one, you talk about 50% of the population, it shirt is something the white house should engage in. >> jonathan, what do republicans think they are gaining by reigniting social issues. it's at a fever pitch right now.
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>> i think it's mostly reflection of what santorum actually believes. i don't think -- you got do remember republicans they are not any more sitting in some establishment enclave saying now what are we going to do to change the tone of the campaign. this is a party out of control, it's at war with itself, the establishment has created a frankenstein, a lot of the financial republicans don't believe any of this stuff. and yet, they have to live with this in their party and i think they know once the conversation changed from religious freedom to contraception, they were in deep doo-doo as george h.w. bush used to say. we have more coming, jonathan alter and richard wolffe. fox news is talking about raising rising gas prices how it's affecting president obama and how it's his fault it's their narrative, stay with us we're right back.
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coming up gas prices going up, republicans are using to it blame the president. we'll give you the real reasons next, don't forget to tweet us using #edshow, stay tuned, we're right back. today is gonna be an important day for us. you ready? we wanna be our brother's keeper. what's number two we wanna do? bring it up to 90 decatherms. how bout ya, joe? let's go ahead and bring it online. attention on site, attention on site. now starting unit nine. some of the world's cleanest gas turbines are now powering some of america's biggest cities. siemens. answers. dave, i've downloaded a virus. yeah. ♪ dave, where are we on the new laptop? it's so slow! i'm calling dave. [ telephone rings ] [ sighs ] i need a new i.t. guy.
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[ male announcer ] in a small business, technology is all you. staples easy tech experts are here to help. you must be... ...dave. [ male announcer ] with everything from new computers, to set-ups, to tune-ups. stapes. that was easy.
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welcome back to "the ed show." the economy is getting better, no doubt. so high gas prices may be the gop's last hope. analysts agree higher gas prices are being caused by the deny -- tensions with iran, high demand from china and refineries closing for maintenance. none of this, none of this is the fault of the president of the united states. but fox news is all over the republican talking points. >> 91%. >> gas prices nearly doubling since president obama took office. >> gas goes up almost double under this president? did anyone see that coming? here is a guy who said i'm good for the economy.
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he has been nothing but bad. >> 1.84, $1.84 whether president obama was inaugurated in january of 2009. >> when the righties say gas prices have almost doubled under president obama, they are not telling the whole story. president obama took office during a dip in gas prices, in may, 2008 under president george bush. gas prices were about $4 a gallon. republicans don't want to compare current gas prices to that. now it's true gas prices could be a problem for the economy. the energy information administration estimates a $20 increase in a barrel of oil causes the gross domestic product to define .4 points. the obama administration needs to push back early and often against the idea that president obama is to blame. president obama will talk about gas prices this coming thursday in miami. in the big finish tonight, jonathan alter and richard wolffe rejoin me back talking about rick santorum's radicalism, romney's money
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trouble and gingrich saying president obama is the most dangerous president of all time. ♪ our machines help identify early stages of cancer and it's something that we're extremely proud of. you see someone who is saved because of this technology, you know that the things that you do in your life, matter. if i did have an opportunity to meet a cancer survivor,
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"the ed show" survey i asked will republicans ever stop questioning president obama's faith? 3% said yes, 97% said no. coming up, mitt romney and rick santorum fight for first while newt gingrich fights for relevancy. richard wolffe, jonathan alter next on "the ed show." ♪
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it's absolutely delicious. kellogg's crunchy nut. it's morning somewhere. the big finish we're one week away from michigan and arizona primaries, tomorrow night the republican candidates will gather for one last debate before voters head to the polls in those states. mitt romney has been fighting hard to avoid a loss in his home state of michigan. his efforts seem to be paying off. last week a public survey showed santorum ahead by 15 points. this lead by 4 points. in arizona mitt romney is ahead by 4 points, 36 to 32%. since the beginning of february, santorum doubled his support in arizona. while he's throwing out red meat, mitt romney shoots himself in the foot with comments like this. >> if all you're thinking about doing is cutting spending, as you cut spending you slow down the economy. >> what was that? you cut spending and you'll slow
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down the economy? that is a total reversal of what the right wing has been saying for months on end. that kind of comment is why conservative voters, they just don't think mitt can get it done. republicans have spent the last three years hollering about cutting spending as the only solution to fixing the economy. romney can't deliver the rhetoric the gop primary voters definitely want and i guess need to hear. let's bring back msnbc political analyst jonathan alter and richard wolffe, jonathan, does that comment throw more ice on the cake for mitt romney? >> michael kinsley said a -- it's very in convenient in the republican primary. i'm glad to hear him establishing a little more connection to reality. we've known ever since the great depression that the last thing you want to do in the middle of tough economic times is cut spending.
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you want to actually increase spending in the short term, cut it in the middle and longer term for a sound economy. >> richard, tomorrow night do you expect santorum to double down on the radical positions we've heard of late? >> he'll try to get the crowd going. he may go after the notion maybe mitt romney isn't as severely conservative as he suggests. he has to be prepared for in-coming. mitt romney's debate performance have improved. he will go after santorum after ear marks, so far the social piece is working for santorum, not for the general election, but it could carry him over the line. >> mitt romney is flat out burning through money in january his campaign and super pac raised $13.1 million, spent $32.7. break it down for us, jonathan. >> they have this big 50-state organization, and it's expensive.
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what all this points to, ed, something we talked about on the program, this campaign is not just about these candidates. it's about the billionaires who are behind them. so the most important question to ask is not what rick santorum or mitt romney might say on this or that issue. it's how far in his pocket sheldon adelson wants to dig. how far does foster friess want to dig in his pocket for rick santorum. these are the the questions that will determine this race. >> richard, how do you -- go ahead. do you want to add to that? >> i was going to say the most troubling number here is in the most recent polling from gallup, 57% of republicans want this race to continue. they don't think it's hurting the party. if they're that delusional, you'll get friess and adelson,
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they will keep it going. your prospects in the general election get worse the longer it goes on. >> how about the abortion talk and what is happening in virginia? gentlemen, i think this is going to affect the social conservatives and the average thinking people if there are any left in michigan. this will hurt santorum, jonathan, what do you think? >> i don't really think so, if you look especially at the conservative republican voters in western michigan, they are there with santorum. the issue where this really hurts is among independents. so if you get a certain number of independents who might be voting in these upcoming primary, that is where you will see michigan thing -- the virginia business cutting against the republicans. it's poison as richard indicated. the gas news price, gas price news is bad news for democrats, but any time they are talking about the social issue, there is
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